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By Pages:   1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    Add Your New Review About The Song The Reviews about Yahweh (page 3/ 8) ------ performed by U2 Also, Re: Bob's ANTI-SCRIPTURAL TEACHINGS | Reviewer: theresa1 | 1/10/09 "Bob" also is teaching tell-tale common FALSE "Christianity" because he speaks of there being MULTIPLE, religions that are acceptable as "Christianity." Why that surely PLEASE THE MASSES and makes the most "FRIENDS" - and is very Bono-like, as seen through several years - it is SCRIPTURALLY FALSE, and a PHILOSOPHY HATED BY BOTH JESUS CHRIST and HIS FATHER, THIS GOD. There is, as scripturally described and prophesied, ONE and ONLY ONE TRUE CHRISTIAN RELIGION ON THIS EARTH. IT IS GLOBAL; IT IS SPIRITUALLY UNITED, WITHOUT DIVISION; IT IS SCRIPTURALLY OBEDIENT (holding the Bible as the AUTHORITY for all spiritual matters) and it BEARS THIS GOD'S NAME ON IT, AS PROPHESIED. (Isaiah 43:10) SCRIPTURAL PROPHESIES as HAVE BEEN FULFILLED BY THIS RELIGION ALONE as being. If you wish to worship THIS GOD, you will NEED to start learning such MAIN SCRIPTURAL CONCEPTS. Do read this: "One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism". (Ephesians 4:4,5) That leaves NO ROOM for multiple, "Christian" religions/ "expressions", as you say. Moreover, FALSE, COUNTERFEIT "Christianity" NOW STANDS CONDEMNED TO DESTRUCTION, by this God and from this God. It has shamed both him and his Son to the world by its MOST ANTI-GOD, ANTI-CHRIST, ANTI-SCRIPTURAL, UNRIGHTEOUS, UNJUST, and THOROUGHLY/DESPICABLY HYPOCRITICAL PRACTICES IN THIS WORLD. FALSE "Christianity", along with all other facets of SATAN'S global empire of all FALSE RELIGIONS, AKA, "BABYLON THE GREAT", is DUE TO BE DESTROYED BY DIVINE INTERVENTION ANYTIME NOW - even immediately BEFORE Armageddon itself. Read Revelation chapters 17 and 18. God charges the FALSE religions of the world - with FALSE "Christianity" particularly at the forefront - as being BLOODGUILTY: BLOODGUILTY for "all of those who have been slaughtered on the earth"; and also CRIMINAL for how it has misled the nations with SPIRITISM. (Revelation 18:23,24) Has YOUR church put on one of those "U2 Eucharist" worship services? Many FALSE "Christian" churches have, due to the workings of their U2 IDOLATER members/leaders. In those "services" the prophesied "disgusting thing" - the "image of the beast" - stands in the middle of a (supposed to be) "holy place"; and Yahweh's holy name is also BLASPHEMED wit the performance of THIS song under such circumstances. Armageddon is certainly NOT LONG OFF. One last thing... | Reviewer: Steve | 1/9/09 I just noticed your ending comment about the seperation of church and state. You do realize that theologians and philosophers alike have spoken out on such a 'wall of seperation' prior to (others during and after) the U.S. formation? St Augustine, John Locke, John Courtney Murray, Thomas Helwys, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Martin Luther. Locke is the only one of these who was not a priest or a minister. This list could go on and on, however it should be enough to demonstrate that the notions of secularism and disestablimentarianism were birthed by philosophers and spurred on by theists. It is perilous to contend that since atheists too like the notions, that they gave rise to them...though, I'm sure they wouldn't mind taking all of that credit. :) Cheers Bob's comments | Reviewer: Steve | 1/9/09 Finally! Thank you, Bob. Those are exactly the kinds of responses that earn the deserved respect of any person and from any world view, and, I thank you both for the insight and the manner in which you've chosen to communicate it. I'll give you the semantic explaination without debate. As I don't know Aramaic or Hebrew, I have very little time, or concern really, in trying to distinquish between "Kindom Of God" and "Kingdom Of Heaven". Further, there's really no point. I think religion is a wonderful human experience and I agree with you completely about the essential message that is being broadcast - the consistent themes delivered. That was a wonderful thing to say. And, it makes sense enough to me. For me, it's never really been an entirely satisfying question to ask or even have answered as to "Does God exist." I could very well grant that He does. My problem has been that He would have created us in such a way, yet makes it impossible for us to know Him in that way. For any given material experience, even the subjective ones, there are always material explanations for them. Should God exist, we can only guess using faith or, infer His nature from material experience. Reasonably, I can only assume that He has little concern for us knowing Him. That's just how I would interpret it. Though science is not a religion, both share very similar epistimology. How do we know what we know? The way in which science answers questions is indeterminate of fact. Meaning, for any non-scientific predicament, such as our own existence, there is no material way to answer it with certainty. We decide what reality is - inclusive of what science should be. Though I'd suggest that it is very practical to see that we decide our experiences are 'real' and that the scientific methods of 'proving' those are very reliable. As for religion, it aims to answer (mostly) non-material experience. Who is to say that is wrong? There is no reason to throw out religion simply because the accompanying tales in their texts are inaccurate, borrowed, illogical, or even outright errant. Science and religion are in the process of discovering 'truth'. As neither have the ability to ever confirm their claims in accuracy related to 'truth', we should see that as we learn more, our story about the 'truth' would change...and in both, we do. This is why I loved your first comment and accept it so readily as a sustainable answer. The only disagreement, and it is trivial, is on the notion of atheism. I have a knowledge of Santa Claus and the Toothfairy. If I deny they are real, I'm not an religious in doing so. It doesn't matter, or shouldn't, what precepts, contexts, or rites are given to either of those beliefs. Denying the specific claims to their existence simply means I am a person who has examined them and have reasoned that the claims are unsubstanciated. I don't see how your definition of atheism holds. You may as well call an atheist a material scientist - one who's world view is shaped by evaluating material experience alone. And in that sense, maybe this will help you and others. Religion is equally about its practice as it is about its belief. Science is all about its methodology - beliefs are not esteemed in the least. My preference then, as an atheist, is to simply give scientific discovery and methodology the platform when it comes to nature, whether that be human or cosmological. Denial is an activity that should be born of applied reason. It is reasonable to deny the gods of men exist. It is not religious to do so. But again, the distiction is trivial to me as long as better parallels can be drawn between religion and atheism. Yours, which is a very common view, simply don't. Thanks again for your thoughtfulness. It was refreshing. I wish very much that others were as probing into their faith as you. I'd more readily lend an ear to the inevitably more intelligent results of the endeavor. Butt in any time. :) Point 2 . . . | Reviewer: Bob | 1/8/09 2. Much more briefly . . . On the idea that Atheism is not a religion . . . Atheism is a belief about God. It is the belief that he is non-existent, but it is nevertheless a belief about religion. That makes it, by definition a religious belief. It is not, for example, a belief about cloud formations or flowers or recipes for blueberry pancakes. It is an argument for a certain perspective about religious truth. Atheism is not some kind of secular neutral ground. It is not a social playing field on which everyone is equal. And because it is a particular belief about religious things, it must not be forced on others through education or government, as separation of Church and state dictates. Part 3 . . . the last . . . | Reviewer: Bob | 1/8/09 Matthew 24:36 & Mark 9:1. Great question!!! (I wish more Christians would ask it!) Matthew 24:36 is concerning the return of Jesus Christ at the end of time, and so the ‘day of the Lord’. Mark 9:1 is concerning the coming of the Kingdom of God. These are not exactly the same thing. Let me explain. The phrase “the Kingdom of God” or “the Kingdom of Heaven” refers to the fact of God’s rule. The kingdom is not just an expression of geography, nor really of some time period, instead, it is a statement of the reign of God. For example, as a Canadian, I can say that I am under the rule of the British Crown. (Albeit in a limited sense). Should I visit the US, for example, I would not cease to be under her rule. In the same way the Kingdom of God is the fact of God being in charge. Christians teach that this world has come under the control of Satan, the ‘Prince of this world”. We say that Jesus came to ‘inaugurate the Kingdom of God”. In other words, in Jesus Christ, God has begun to take back control once again. Whenever we see someone healed of sickness, whenever we see justice rise up over injustice, whenever we see God’s people acting under his sovereign power, whenever we see demons expelled, we say that the Kingdom of God – the fact of God being in charge, taking control again – is come. (Bono actually refers in some of his music, btw, to the Kingdom Come.) An example of this in the NT is Matthew 12:22-28 (Luke 11:17-20), where Jesus is challenged after expelling a demon from a man. His response is that if he has, in fact, expelled the demon by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has come. Not will come, but has come – and that is because what they are seeing is an expression of God’s sovereign power advancing into the world. At the end of time, the Kingdom that Jesus has inaugurated in his first coming will be finally consummated. At that time, God’s sovereign rule will be established over all things. We live between the times. At Pentecost, God’s Spirit was poured out on the people who believed in Jesus. At that moment, the experience Jesus had of living in God’s kingdom became a possible experience for all who trust in Jesus. We express that fact now by saying that Christians, upon giving their lives to Christ – abandoning their lives here to serve instead Jesus in his kingdom now – are entering the Kingdom of God now. So, Jesus was not told the day or hour of his coming at the end of time, but he could speak intelligibly of the coming of the Kingdom of God with power – something that many of his disciples did see on the day of Pentecost, and something that all who put their trust in Jesus should experience today. This is pretty foundational Christian teaching . . . I’m surprised at how poorly understood it is even in the church! To get some references on this teaching, (so you don’t think I whipped it up on the fly to make awkward passages fit!), you should be able to get your hands some of George Eldon Ladd’s work, or some of John Wimber’s teaching. I think C.H. Dodd was the chap who actually coined the phrase “the now and the not yet” when it comes to teaching on the Kingdom of God (expressing the idea that the Kingdom has been inaugurated in Christ, but will be fulfilled at the end of the age.) Blessings on you! Thanks for letting me jump in! Ok if I jump in? | Reviewer: Bob | 1/8/09 So saddened to hear the tone of this discussion. Certainly not reflective of Christ, who tended only to raise his voice with some religious leaders, and not so much the crowds that loved his voice, those caps are really harsh in spirit. Be at peace – why not take the text of what you’ve written to your pastor, go over it there, pray together, and see what steps the Lord leads you in from there? Check Romans 12:9-21, especially 12:18. I’m concerned for you, and hope that you can hear that well and from a sibling in Christ Jesus. I think, Steve, you must already be aware that the volatility you’ve encountered is not a reflection of a theological perspective per se, and is rather one personality among the millions of Jesus’ followers that exist. I expect you already know, too, that ongoing debate will serve only to agitate or hurt someone with that kind of experience of the world . . . I appreciate your not shouting back. (Isn’t all caps universally agreed upon on now as shouting?) I won’t wander through the all debate you’ve been involved with – so forgive me if I miss something already said – some of it’s rather tedious to read. I’ll just make some comments if that’s cool. 1. The ancient Hebrew community that developed and cherished the Torah, (our Old Testament texts), certainly comes out of the same cultural pool as the Mesopotamians & Babylonians, etc. The flood narratives and several other parts of the OT are arguably at least influenced by that pool – if not inherited from it. Even the name Yahweh, if I understand correctly, is actually originally a Canaanite word, and the people in the land seem to have passed it on and found it usable to describe their Hebrew experience of God as the generations went by. Some of our Psalms look like they may even have been Canaanite hymns sort of retooled for the Hebrew worship of Yahweh. Psalm 29 is one, I think – though it’s been a little while since I’ve read on the topic. Those kinds of facts have never been an issue for me. Every generation of God’s people has been in the business of using their cultural forms to express their experience of God. What’s remarkable to me is how consistent the core of Christian theology has remained despite the radical changes and emphases of 2000 years and a whole wide world of cultural expressions. The practice of bringing Christianity to others intentionally in a prefab cultural form is pretty much old hat missiology nowadays, and the result across our globe is a beautiful diversity of Christian expression. African evangelicals in worship sound so much different than Korean, say, and the issues for evangelicals hiding in Saudi Arabia or Iraq are likely so different from the priorities of those in the underground church in China or being killed by Buddhists in former Burma, all the more different from the crises of apathy in suburban Vancouver or Birmingham, and yet we nevertheless find such consistency in core theological teaching. Sure there are differences, but the Apostles Creed still pretty much meets muster wherever you go. My point in mentioning this is that it is a legitimate practice to use the language, narratives and music of our day to re-express the timeless truths of God. Yes, narratives too. For ancient Hebrews learning the stories of their day and culture, they would have recognized in them the acts of God – and so would naturally have retold the true stories of their day, but from their God-seeing perspective. The same happens now. An atheist in California perhaps sees the 911 attacks as somehow connected to poor ongoing American foreign policy, a Southern Baptist Christian in Dallas tells the same story, but wonders what God was doing in that moment? For them, perhaps the story could be about God’s frustration with American immorality, or else on the other hand, their narrative could be about the way God miraculously reached into the darkness and saved some people from the terror. As an ancient Hebrew tells the story of the flood, he sees it as a servant of Yahweh. The point is that, just because some stories in the OT are found in pre-existent cultures, one need not conclude some illegitimate or undermining dependence. To the contrary, we merely have faithful Hebrew people from that day giving their side of the reality they knew. I find that quite inspiring. Thought so! | Reviewer: Steve | 1/7/09 Sugar, I don't know where to begin. Well, first, citing from the bible to prove the bible is valid is quite daft. Second, I knew you would say that the Christian researcher(s) whom I cited were "false" Christians...since they disagree with you - I even called it. Again, you throw out all archeological data collected from years of research; you don't even try to draw different conclusions from the data, you just ignore it outright...good on you! Third, atheism is not a religion. Perhaps you'd care to share the ways in which you consider it to be. Do that. I'll be happy, in the mean time, to post the qualities of a cult and then directly parallel that with the Jahova's Witnesses - which is less a religion and more the former. And honey, the lyrics you quoted from "Vertigo" are *supposed* to be a reference to Matthew 4:8,9. If you could freaking understand literary devices, perhaps you'd not jump to inane conclusions. You might find that U2 isn't that bad and the most of the bible is allegorical - since you are functionally illiterate and have no clue of what that means, use dictionary.com. While you're at it, will you also look up bipolar disorder and then explain how the Yahweh in the Old Testament and the Yahweh of the New Testament is NOT suffering from its effects? Finally, explain to me how Jesus in Matthew 24:36 states that only God knows when Jesus is going to come back, yet in Mark 9:1 various translation don't allow for Jesus to simply 'forget'...Here's the whole passage: "I tell you with certainty, some people standing here will not experience death until they see the kingdom of God arrive with power." - International Standard. "I can guarantee this truth..." - God's Word. "In solemn truth I tell you that..." - Weymouth New Testament. "Most certainly I tell you..." - World English Bible. "Truly I say to you..." - New American Standard. Since everyone he was speaking to is dead, either Jesus 'forgot' that he couldn't make such a claim, or, he lied, or we all should be *very* cautious when the Son of God uses the term "truth" - as it is certainly a relative thing to him. And, while I'm continuing to feed the troll (read, you), understand that I'm performing a civic duty in keeping your attentions here so that the other users of the internet can have one less kook to worry about (read, you) as they peruse. This is so funny that it's almost cute! | Reviewer: Steve | 1/7/09 "AFTER the Flood, Noah and his family lived in the area of Babylonia. As his family/ descendents quickly multiplied, THEY PASSED ON - at least by word of mouth - THE STORY OF WHAT GOD HAD TOLD NOAH, and WHAT HAPPENED with the PURPOSED GREAT FLOOD that did occur." - teresa1 2420-2410 B.C.E, eh? Honey, the archeology of the epic is dated at 2700 BC. In case you are forgetting the BC and what that means...in BC, a larger number indicates an *earlier* period of time. Gilgamesh the man-god (jesus, that sounds familiar...and pre-dates, well, Jesus), wasn't around to hear Noah's descendant's tale. He was already dead. But none of that is even the funny part, sugar. What is would be the idea that incest is punishable by death according to the Old Testament. However it is the ONLY method of populating the Earth both in the Garden of Eden and after the flood - God seems to like the paradox. This is so funny because a post-flood world would have had to have been so frought with incestuous activity as to populate what archeology knows as Babylon in such short order - "quickly multiplied" indeed! What you still haven't explained, outside of failed attempts at Gilgamesh, is the flood of the Summarians which give rise to (reflected in) the epic. That story is even older. You also did not explain at all how the Caddo indians of North America have a flood myth too...yet cannot be linked culturally to Noah-esque myths. You still have yet to account for the dates of the flood myths around the world and how none of them refer to the same specific date for any given flood, nor do most of them speak of a *global* flood - several myths, including the Summarian, refers only to a confined local area of land...further, that all these flood myths have "wet" conditions for different periods of time. Even if you *still* think all these flood myths are attributable to the flood of Noah, you absolutely must see how errant oral tradition is given how your "one flood" theory is seen in so many forms. Guess what most of the Old Testament is preserved by? Oral tradition. That doesn't surprise me though. Most legends have this kind of background. :) So Much FALSEHOOD has Been Used to FIGHT THIS GOD | Reviewer: theresa1 | 1/6/09 You shouldn't use sources from Christendom (FALSE, Christ-disobedient, pseudo[fake]-"Christianity") as any part of your "defense", because they DO NOT HOLD UP as being ALL-TRUE when compared to God's own words either. In fact, as you may realize, as you "play that card" is that you are ON THE SAME SIDE with FALSE "Christians" in your FIGHTING AGAINST THIS GOD by rebelling against his words and fighting His messengers of them. Indeed - Atheists, agnostics, FALSE "Christians" of many varieties, pagans, Buddhists, Toaists, those of Islam, Hindus, Jainists, etc., etc., etc. all can be seen, as even a "snapshot" sort of testimony - "SPIRITUALLY" joined together for the sake of world "peace and security" at the United Nations at times, n'est ce pas? WHY, EVEN BONO WAS THERE THIS YEAR (this past fall). I wonder if he showed them all his "Yahweh" video............or, if he just let that Yahweh-blaspheming piece of dung keep playing to the world in the background via a major global video-sharing website (and more)? NO TRUE and loyal, Scripture-following/holy spirit (God's power)-following worshiper of THIS God is part of that World Council of Religious Leaders, and neither are they fans of it. Also, NO TRUE worshiper of THIS God was SEDUCED by famous (and "powerful" among men) [combo] atheist-agnostic-pagan worshipers of "the creation" TO SIGN AWAY THEIR FAITH, by signing a paper at a (past) "Global Governance" meeting, that THEIRS IS NOT THE ONLY "TRUTH" - like many FALSE religious leaders, and, notably FALSE "Christian" representatives did. Are you seeing common features and goals in such anti-God, antichrist propaganda yet?? "ALL OF THIS, ALL OF THIS CAN BE YOURS/ ALL OF THIS, ALL OF THIS CAN BE YOURS/ ALL OF THIS, ALL OF THIS CAN BE YOURS/ JUST GIVE ME WHAT I WANT/ AND NO ONE GETS HURT" (Again, the bridge from U2's "Vertigo" song - COMPARE Matthew 4:8,9) You should see what is being worked, and you NEED TO, because you, too, "sir", have bitten into the SAME fruit, but need to spit it out, fast (and APOLOGIZE, TO THIS God). And, YES, as A WITNESS TO THE SCRIPTURAL TRUTH OF THE GOD OF THIS NAME, YAHWEH - JEHOVAH, THERE ***IS*** A UNITED, GLOBAL PEOPLE WHO ***DO*** LOYALLY AND OBEDIENTLY HOLD TO HIS WORDS AS THE SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY - both for the world and universe, but, also, in OUR INDIVIDUAL LIVES. None of us are perfect, yet, but we are generally obedient to our Maker's instructions, as best as we can individually be - to his commands and principles THAT THE WORLD IN GENERAL (including FALSE "Christianity") CHOOSES TO SPURN as being archaic, obsolete, not "enlightened" enough, etc., as they put their confidence and loyalty in the philosophies of men and demons INSTEAD. So, NO - you "proved" NOTHING that was counter to THIS God's words. NEITHER DID YOU SUCCEED in changing my mind whatsoever, except to make me MORE CERTAIN that this God's words and prophesies are TRUE and are rapidly and intensely reaching their total fulfillment for this old world system. NEITHER can LIARS and FIGHTERS AGAINST THIS GOD BREAK THE FAITH OF HIS TRUE WORSHIPERS. The fierce LIE propaganda against this God and his people being so thickly worked today, just prior to Armageddon, was long-ago prophesied and described - warned against. For example: "Yet these [men] are SPEAKING ABUSIVELY OF ALL THE THINGS THEY REALLY DO NOT KNOW; but all the things that they do understand naturally like the unreasoning animals, in these things they go on corrupting themselves. Too bad for them, because they have gone in the path of Cain, and have rushed into the erroneous course of Ba´laam for reward, and have perished in the rebellious talk of Ko´rah! These are the rocks hidden below water in YOUR love feasts while they feast with YOU, shepherds that feed themselves without fear; waterless clouds carried this way and that by winds; trees in late autumn, [but] fruitless, having died twice, having been uprooted; wild waves of the sea that foam up their own causes for shame; stars with no set course, for which the blackness of darkness stands reserved forever. Yes, the seventh one [in line] from Adam, E´noch, prophesied also regarding them, when he said: “Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they did in an ungodly way, and CONCERNING ALL THE SHOCKING THING that UNGODLY SINNERS SPOKE AGAINST HIM.” These men are murmurers, complainers about their lot in life, PROCEEDING ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN DESIRES, and their mouths speak swelling things, while they are admiring personalities for the sake of [their own] benefit. As for YOU, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings that have been previously spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, how they used to say to YOU: “IN THE LAST TIME THERE WILL COME TO BE RIDICULERS, PROCEEDING ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN DESIRES FOR UNGODLY THINGS.” These are the ones that make separations, animalistic [men], NOT having spirituality." (JUDE, 10-19) Then, there is 2Timothy 3:1-9,12,13 - "But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth. Now in the way that Jan´nes and Jam´bres resisted Moses, so these also go on resisting the truth, men completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their madness will be very plain to all, even as the [madness] of those [two men] became....In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted. But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled." And lastly, this - for those that think they are "so smart" that their words, reasonings, and purposes are greater than those of God Almighty's; or that they are somehow unaccountable to him, "safe" from his sight and soon-coming deserved, just vengeance - especially since they have the "approval" of the bulk-mass majority of other MEN: (Romans 1:18-32) "For God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are SUPPRESSING THE TRUTH in an unrighteous way, BECAUSE WHAT MAY BE KNOWN ABOUT GOD IS MANIFEST AMONG THEM, FOR GOD MADE IT MANIFEST TO THEM. FOR HIS INVISIBLE [QUALITIES] ARE CLEARLY SEEN FROM THE WORLD'S CREATION ONWARD, BECAUSE THEY ARE PERCEIVED BY THE THINGS MADE, EVEN HIS EXTERNAL POWER AND GODSHIP, SO THAT THEY ARE INEXCUSABLE; because, ALTHOUGH THEY KNEW GOD, THEY DID NOT GLORIFY HIM AS GOD NOR DID THEY THANK HIM, but THEY BECAME EMPTY- HEADED IN THEIR REASONINGS and THEIR UNINTELLIGENT HEART BECAME DARKENED. #### ALTHOUGH ASSERTING THEY WERE WISE, THEY BECAME FOOLISH ### and turned the glory of the incorruptible God into something like the image of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed creatures and creeping things. Therefore God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them, even THOSE WHO EXCHANGED THE TRUTH OF GOD FOR THE LIE and VENERATED AND RENDERED SACRED SERVICE TO THE CREATION RATHER THAN THE ONE WHO CREATED, who is blessed forever. Amen. That is why God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error. AND JUST AS ### THEY DID NOT APPROVE OF HOLDING GOD IN ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE,### GOD GAVE THEM UP TO A DISAPPROVED MENTAL STATE, to do the things not fitting, filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, merciless. ALTHOUGH THESE KNOW FULL WELL THE RIGHTEOUS DECREE OF GOD, THAT THOSE PRACTICING SUCH THINGS ARE DESERVING OF DEATH, THEY NOT ONLY KEEP ON DOING THEM BUT ALSO CONSENT WITH THOSE PRACTICING THEM." QED. No, you DIDN'T just INQUIRE and ASK for "proof" about God's existence and the validity of his words, etc. You attacked with lies, slander, and other UNJUST abuse. Long ago, a non-Christian, well-respected teacher of Law, named Gamaliel, had this to say to his fellows, who were bent on making trouble for Christ's apostles and disciples: "...I say to YOU, DO NOT MEDDLE WITH THESE MEN, but let them alone; (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; but IF IT IS FROM GOD, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO OVERTHROW THEM;) otherwise, YOU MAY PERHAPS BE FOUND FIGHTERS ACTUALLY AGAINST GOD.” (Acts 5:38,39) There is a SPIRITUAL WAR FOR HEARTS AND MINDS GOING ON, NOW, more intensely than ever before. YOU are involved in that, whether you want to be or not. The "default" side for apathy or attempted "fence-sitting" is with the rebels, too. Come Armageddon Day, SOON, EVERYONE alive will be found on either one of TWO sides: Either WITH those loyal, obedient and true to THIS God, Jehovah-Yahweh; OR on the side of all rebels against THIS God, fighting and disobeying him as they see fit. Atheism, agnosticism, and the world's FALSE religions, again, ALL TRULY, ULTIMATELY WORSHIP A COMMON gOD, whose name is Satan - or "Slanderer" of the Creator; and they exist under his heart-and-mind-control POWER for his LIES that they beLIEve in. Again, thus the state of the world. But, again, the TRUE God will NOT let the trouble made by stubborn rebels against him go on endlessly - he also cares for those faithful to him, humans on this earth who suffer due to the hate and injustices put on them by "godless" ones and FALSE religionists. (2Thessalonians 1:6-9) The time of his patience is nearly OVER. Fair warning is going out all over the earth, as prophesied. (Matthew 24:14; Ezekiel 3:17-21) Then, soon, "the end will come" - just like it did in Noah's day, for REAL. Then will come Jehovah-Yahweh's whole new world system here, with all stubborn, unrepentant trouble-makers against him *gone*, just as they were when Noah and those with him stepped out of the Ark, saw the rainbow, etc. "AFTER THE FLOOD, all the colors came out" (from U2's "Beautiful Day")..... ....AND THEY WILL AGAIN, at least so to say, AFTER ARMAGEDDON, SOON. The standard of atheism is to MOCK that; the standard of FALSE religion is to take NO real "NOTE" of that, nor voice any real, urgent WARNING about these things; but to (ALONG WITH ATHEISTS) put trust and faith in elements of SATAN'S world system (political, economic, and FALSE religious/ philosophical ones), as if they will CONTINUE to go on - INSTEAD of supporting and promoting God's own scripturally-described, heaven-based kingdom as mankind and individual's ONLY HOPE. So, you can listen to people who snore and are talking in their sleep; or you can wake up and listen to the scriptural truth that every good thing around you testifies to. YOUR CHOICE. Its called "free will", but use it wisely - THIS God DOESN'T HAVE TO keep on granting life to anyone who keeps on rebelling against him; and, in fact, he WON'T. So, that's it? | Reviewer: Steve | 1/3/09 You say I'm ill-informed about the flood myth, yet when I support my claims and point out your errors with cites, Christian sources at that, your counter is to ignore the subject altogether? And sugar, I was trying to patronize you...and, I'm glad to see that it worked...sugar. What I said about relative moralism is that religion has as many blemishes as any other world view - such as atheism, which is *not* a religion. Sweden, Norway, the Czech Republic, they all seem to be very good examples of a religion-tolerant people despite having at or over 80% of their populous either identifying themselves as agnostic or atheistic. But again, if religion (Jewish, Christian, Muslim) offered a moral standard, there should be no straying from the standard especially by the most diligent and faithful followers. What we find in these extremely faithful followers is quite the opposite. We find extremely immoral behavior - from the Israeli conquest of the promised land that involved the genocide of several tribes to include the people of Jericho to the Cannanites, the Christian Crusades and the Inquisition, to current day suicide bombings of the Islamic Muslims. But again, I needn't go into more detail than this except to point out again, morals are relativistic. Citing specific grivances on either side simply ends in a tie. My point should be taken by now - if only you could read. As for fighting God, what's there to fight? I am merely asking you how you know *your* god exists and how you know your god is the *one true* god. As I said before using Genesis as a case-study, as it were, that either God is omniscient and omnipotent...*OR* he authored Genesis. Whatever you say God is or is not, you cannot prove except to say that you believe in what scripture says about Him. That may be fine for you, however, it is not for me given the errant contents thereof and the code of conduct layed out by the biblical example set by it's God - Yahweh. Again, God lies outside of our ability to perceive him if He exists at all. No one can claim to know anything about Him, from His nature to His intent. This whole conversation stems from you, the Jehova's Witness tolken wingnut, declaring that not only is the atheist wrong but that the majority of Christendom is wrong about God. And while you may interest some theists' mind to your take on God simply because by default they believe in one and are inclined to listen to scripture, you must find another way to convince deists, agnostics, and atheists. You must use reason and logic. On that front, you have been shown to be severly wanting. May your mind continue to rot, festering in the solace of faith, aborting the best uses of the mind. The rest of us simply watch with awkward amusement. 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